Lucius on Their New Self-Titled Album, Balancing Motherhood and Music

It’s worth reminding the world — since the world may still be confused on this matter — that the two frontwomen of the band Lucius are not twins. But Jess Wolfe and Holly Laessig have done a brilliant job of fostering that illusion for more than a decade now, to the delight of anyone who appreciates laser-focused harmony singing. They don’t take the idea of being a sister act nearly as far as, say, a White-Stripes-claiming-to-be-brother-and-sister level; there’s no pretense about them actually being related. But dressing and bewigging themselves identically on stage is part of a design factor that lends subliminal strength to the beautiful illusion of their phenomenal tandem singing counting as blood harmony, even if it is only a serendipitous thing — or a harmonic convergence, of sorts — that they joined forces at Berklee 20 years ago.

Fate seems to like this idea of Laessig and Wolfe being interlocked in life as well as in voice. As Variety visits the two singers at Wolfe’s home in Northeast L.A. on the eve of their leaving for a tour, their respective babies are being attended to by friends of the family in the living room, clear evidence of how these are having some similar life experiences off-stage that echo the vocal and visual mirroring they engage in on-stage.

There’s another new baby in the family: “Lucius,” the self-titled new album they’ve just released with fellow band members Dan Molad and Peter Lalish. It’s self-produced, with extra contributions on the writing and production sides by Molad (who also happens to be Wolfe’s ex-husband… but no, there are no Fleetwood Mac-like complications here). The album marks a return to a moodier, more guitar-based indie-rock sound after their previous all-new album, 2022’s Brandi Carlile/Dave Cobb-produced “Second Nature.” But if the instrumental style is pretty different this time around, the way the women’s voices soar above it all make clear that there is a connective thread running through their impressive catalog, and it’s the “genre” of harmony.

Although the moods of “Lucius” change from song to song, there is generally always a moment in each tune where the two voices lift off in perfect unison, and each time it feels like proof that it is possible to manufacture a miracle. Without wanting to spoil the magic trick of exactly how their voices conjoin, we dove into the stellar, earthy new album and attendant matters with the two singer-songwriters.

Have you had a chance to have a calm before the storm with the family, having babies and being about to embark on a tour?

Wolfe: It’s like a storm before the storm. But in a good way. We have a lot of new music, a whole record, and a whole new show, playing almost no old songs — just a few. And we’ve got babies. So that’s like a full-time job with a full-time job. Which is really sweet. And hard. There will be breaks [in the tour], nd purposeful ones, so we can recalibrate. 

Having an album come out as you’ve got these new lives in your lives… is there some sense in which you’re able to think of it all as a big bundle of creativity and nurturing? Or does it feel more like balancing two competing interests? 

Wolfe: I mean, at times, when we’re rehearsing and I’m getting texts about how he’s not sleeping or he’s having a tummy ache, it definitely can be… I wouldn’t say competing. It’s just hard to focus, because there’s nothing that could carry more focus than your baby. But it also enables you to reimagine how you structure your life and how you write and what you’re saying. There’s just so much more significance and depth and meaning there that I think has really  — now that I’m a mom, too — enabled us as partners to really just take that extra care and thought into what it is that we’re doing. And knowing that there’s some legacy there for our babies, something there that’s going to be beyond us or extended from us, and that it could have an impact on their life one day… There’s something really precious about it right now. It just gives it so much more significance than I expected. And the record is really about that, you know — the arc of life and the cyclical nature of life and how it shifts. And being home. 

Do you feel like the album is thematically cohesive, or has any kind of lyrical emphasis for you?

Laessig: I think we kind of purposefully didn’t set out to make a thematic record, or to have a specific concept for what it was. And because of that, it to me is the most cohesive record we’ve made, because we just wrote songs about what was going on in life. We were all home and nesting, and there were marriages and babies being born and deaths happening. There are a lot of words in the lyrics that are home things, like TVs, or you’re waking up from a dream… just things that place you in in your home space. I think because we didn’t put so much pressure on what it was gonna be about and what the meaning of it was, and we just leaned into the meaning behind what’s going on in our life, it feels the most honest, I would say. 

Wolfe: Yeah, it feels balanced. It feels like there’s an arc, and there’s quiet moments and it’s also erratic at times, just like life is. I feel very grounded in it. It’s kind of similar to how we were when we wrote our first record — which is I think why it feels the most us, and hence is self-titled. We were just letting life happen and writing about that. It happens, also, that our lives are on a pretty parallel path right now. So there’s like a nice little cohesiveness within the band family there, too, being in a similar space right now in our lives. Everyone’s sort of planting roots and having babies and getting married and doing domestic things. And yet, we’re still kind of these little weirdos. 

You recorded an all-new version of your first major record, “Wildewoman,” and put that out last year … and it sounds like revisiting that album was kind of a gateway drug to how you approached this new “Lucius” album.

Wolfe: With “Wildewoman,” there was a preciousness that we didn’t place on the record, because it was the first. And for this one, I think we were kind of returning to ourselves. We produced it ourselves. We made it in a room, just the four of us. And so there was just an ease about making the record, just coming back in the room, the four of us, and seeing how that whole process was again, and how natural it felt. All of us love collaborating (with producers and other outsiders), but I think there was something about reminding ourselves of our own capability to do it ourselves. We know each other so well as personalities and as musicians and how we speak a musical language… Remaking “Wildewoman” by ourselves, we just thought, “This feels right. This next record, let’s try it this way.” I think it worked out well. 

Why did you want to remake “Wildewoman” to begin with? It’s a more serious reinvention than a soundalike Taylor’s Version type of re-recording.

Wolfe: It was a celebration of the 10 years since the record came out. And in going back to the recordings and sort of analyzing ourselves in a way, there was something really awesome that came from it and really lent itself to making this record, and that was just seeing how there were a lot of things that we had forgotten that we did. Because, you know, you’re exploring and venturing out and trying new things as a band, and also you shift because you think that certain people will like certain things, and then you’re like, “Ah, maybe that doesn’t feel natural. I’m gonna come back to X, Y, or Z.” The returning to the record really reminded us of how every part of the band sort of relies on one another. We’re all a cog in the wheel, and everything could sort of fall apart at any moment, and it doesn’t. That vulnerability is what keeps us excited, So going through the recordings and rerecording was a celebration of who we were then, but also how we are now, too. 

It’s been three years since you released your last proper new album, “Second Nature,” which was produced by Dave Cobb and Brandi Carlile. Knowing Brandi, she surely really wanted you guys to do well, and there was maybe a bit more commerciality to that record. It also had a bit of a split personality: it was your disco record and your divorce record, to put it very broadly, with some more fun, bouncy songs but also some big, dramatic ballads. This album is closer to being an indie-roc record — the difference is pretty striking. 

Wolfe: I mean, we’re theatrical people, and the artists that we’ve been most inspired by were always sort of exploring different universes, and that makes things interesting. I think the thing that binds it all together is the voices at the end of the day. But this does feel like our most us as a band, as people, as musicians, as creatives, at least in a very long time. 

Laessig: Yeah. And art is a response to life. So “Second Nature” does feel in retrospect like a creative project that was in response to that time, which was COVID…

Wolfe: And lockdown. Divorce. 

Laessig: And just like wanting to break it down and dance, everyone! [Laughs.] It served its purpose. For this record, it really felt like we were just much more comfortable with life, at that moment. But yeah, we never do the same thing twice. 

Wolfe: No. You’ll never probably say that this record sounds like whichever record we’ve already made, for better or for worse. 

It’s always a point of curiosity when people save their self-titled record for, like, their fourth or fifth album, and that has some meaning to them. 

Laessig: It does, yeah. We have another record, too, that’s coming., by the way. It’s kind of another world, and it’s awesome. But I think we wanted to land somewhere first. We wanted to land in Lucius for a minute before that.

Wolfe: Before we’re off to another planet. 

Laessig: So this really did feel like that landing ground, this record, and it just made sense to call it “Lucius.”

Anything you can say about the unreleased album you mentioned? When we talked to you three years ago, you mentioned an unreleased album that was kind of off on a tangent, at that time. 

Wolfe: Oh, it was still that record.

Laessig: It is the lore of this record. It’s a long-time ongoing record. It will see the light of day. We’ll keep talking about it… 

Wolfe: …and build up that hype and disappoint everyone! No, I’m just joking. That album iss a wild journey in itself, so I think, like Holly said, it felt too spastic to go there after “Second Nature.” We wanted to land back on earth, in all the ways —  physically and artistically, spiritually, whatever. So that’s what this record’s doing for us, and it’s been really healthy. 

You always have such a strong graphic sense with everything, including album covers. Is there a reason you have canine teeth on the cover?

Wolfe: Yeah. I mean, is he smiling? Is he growling? Maybe it’s all of the above. Like, not knowing what’s behind the door.

Laessig: Dogs are at home, too, and have been a big part of our lives the last few years. We saw the image and just felt, in all honesty, that it was a striking image. If I was walking into a record store, I would see that and think, “Oh, what’s that?” So there is also just that level of invite, I guess.  But it was probably the most… would you say most controversial? Like, half the office was like no; half was yes. There’s been some people that have made comments on Facebook like, “How could you do that? What about people who are afraid of dogs?” It’s just interesting, like, OK!

Wolfe: I mean, the “Wildewoman” cover I feel like didn’t even get that much feedback. And that one was a bold choice.

Has the way you harmonize evolved very much?

Laessig: When we first started singing together in unison, we realized it did kind of create another voice. And we’ve played a lot with layers for certain effects. This record, we did a lot less of that. I think we wanted to it to feel more grounded and personal and intimate.

As far as the technical aspects of your voices and what contributes to the blend, it’s nice to have it as a mystery, in some ways… but I did read you saying in another interview, Jess, that you “have more of a belty alto tenor voice, and she’s got this light and airy soprano. We can fill in the other, but it’s with a different texture. So, we can really play around with so many different sounds and dynamics that only we can do as a unit.”

Laessig: You know, there’s a woman who did a breakdown on YouTube. Oh God. She’s a vocal teacher and she did a very technical breakdown. Watch it, because I don’t even know what she’s talking about!

Wolfe: But we don’t think about that, like, “Oh, this is your part and this is my part.” The song lends itself to what we’re gonna sing and how we’re gonna sing it. And we are often changing roles or parts. Like, oftentimes I’ll take the lower part in the verse, for instance, and Holly will be on the top, and then we shift for the chorus to sort of add another layer of dynamic. Because when you shift voice, there’s just an energy in that swap.

There aren’t many featured artists on this album, but you do have Madison Cunningham as your guest for “Impressions.” Obviously you have done a lot of vocal collaborations with other artists on stage, but almost never on one of your own records. Of course Madison has developed quite a fan club both as a vocalist and guitarist. What was special about doing something with her?

Wolfe: We just talked about writing, and when we got together in a room, we wrote this song in a couple of hours. It just came out of all of us, and she’s just so wildly talented a gifted musician and singer, so it was just a natural. At the time, we weren’t even sure whose song it was going to be, per se. But it made sense on our record, and she wanted to sing with us, thankfully. We’re such huge fans of hers.

Laessig: It was fun to record, too, because we have such harmonic tendencies (to rely upon). We kind of know what we’re gonna do; we can harmonize on the spot, and there’s places we typically go, harmonically. But she is not one of us. So Jess and she recorded first, so that she had the freedom to move around and wasn’t boxed in by two voices creating an already existing harmonic code. It was just the two of them first, and then I sang on top of Maddie, so she did all kinds of things we wouldn’t have thought to do.

You’ve said you wrote a lot of this in the room with the whole band, or with Dan being in there earlier on in the creation of songs, and that was different fro how you’ve usually worked, at least in your recent albums.

Wolfe: Yeah. I mean, there were some songs that we (Holly and Jess) wrote before going to the studio, but mostly we were creating together (as a band), building tracks as we were writing, and the feeling or mood in a track would suggest what we were gonna sing sometimes. We just know each other all so well, and he knows our voices so well, that he’s able to just be so on the pulse of what we’re doing. He’s just so at the ready to enable that craft, and so it was actually really quite a fun process, but also something we hadn’t done really, ever.

You and Dan are divorced of course, and and most people might intuitively expect that if there is a divorce within a band, those people are going to want to create more distnace, if they’re still working together. And here you are doing the reverse — saying you wanted to have Dan involved even more intimately in the writing and production. Maybe you could provide a role model to everyone about how that situation can work out.

Wolfe: I’m so pleased, and so lucky, that we all were able to get through that. And I say “we all,” because we’re all in very tight, close quarters for a long period of time. Going through a divorce is challenging behind closed doors, let alone with a lot of people watching. But it’s just been very easy. And I think that’s just us deciding that we wanted to be in each other’s lives, and we cared about the happiness of each other and we wanted to continue making art. Because there’s a lot of beauty in the relationship; it just wasn’t the romantic kind. I’m so thankful for that trust and care and respect, honestly. I didn’t feel like I had to control (the music) or hold onto something. It was the opposite: I want him to contribute in the ways that he is strongest and in the way that brings him fulfillment, just like it does for us. And Holly obviously agrees. I think it’s archaic to think people should have no relationship with the person that they’re with for a long time, just because it doesn’t work out romantically, you know?

The band sticking together for as long as it has obviously brings benefits you don’t get any other way than through longevity.

Wolfe: Mm-hmm. I know, I can’t believe the two of us are almost at 20 years of singing together, which is crazy. Very wild…

Laessig: Not to date ourselves.

Is there a favorite song for either or both of you on the album?

Laessig: I mean, I love the first and the last. I don’t have one that I don’t like. I don’t have a skip. But “Final Days” and “At the End of the Day” come to mind very instantly.

Wolfe: I like “Do It All for You.” It shifts. And I still love “Mad Love.” I’m a sucker for an emo ballad, and it’s also just really fun to sing.

“Orange Blossoms” is one of the more sort of anthemic songs of the album, which works well for a penultimate slot on an album, where maybe you want to be bringing it to some kind of climax. Anything to say about what that song is about?

Laessig: I think just zooming out and getting less sucked into the little itty-bitty parts of a relationship or a difficult time — being able to zoom out and look at it from overhead. That’s what we were talking about a lot when we were writing that. In my den in my house, there’s a window right by my piano, and right there is an orange tree, and when we were very first writing it, the orange tree was blooming, so that’s where the orange blossom part came from. We were just talking about a difficult time in a relationship, and the idea of being able to zoom out and look at the sky view, and the stars, and feeling small… but in a good way. Feeling small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things, which makes those (difficult) parts feel small and less significant… less weighted.

You are well-known for jumping on stage as part of some all-star collaborations… “jump” probably being the wrong word for something that is so rehearsed. Have you had a favorite experience in the last few years of that sort? And is too obvious to anticipate that it might be Joni?

Wolfe: I mean, nothing gets more all-star than Joni. That’s a gift right there, just being able to witness, let alone be a part of, her magic… and lifting her up — it feels weird to say that. As a community of artists, this is our hero, and being able to be there for her and be there with her to bring these songs back to life, it’s just been a true gift and, honestly, a reminder of the power of music, the magic of music, and how it can heal you. It can bring you back to yourself. We’ve seen that with Joni in a really major way, because we’ve been singing with her since… I don’t know, it’s been seven years now or something, which is crazy. And you know, she just headlined the Hollywood Bowl. I mean, come on, 82 years old — pretty rad.

What is most exciting you about the year ahead?

Wolfe: We’re just excited about getting into these songs and seeing an audience react. We’ve been working really hard to bring this record to life, and maybe harder than we ever have on any record we’ve made, because we care about how it sounds and what it feels like. There are so many moving parts, and each one of us is taking a lot of responsibility musically. So it does kind of feel like, whoa, this could literally fall apart at any moment. But that’s what makes it exciting and sort of wild too, and that makes me feel alive in a way where I’m excited to be on the road and to bring that to people to share… and see how it continues to unravel, in a way.

Lucius’ 2025 tour dates:

May 5—Nashville, TN—Flat Box Top at The Pinnacle (WNXP Anniversary Show)
May 6—St. Louis, MO—Delmar Hall*
May 7—Iowa City, IA—The Englert Theatre*
May 9—St. Paul, MN—Palace Theatre*
May 10—Madison, WI—Majestic Theatre* (SOLD OUT)
May 11—Detroit, MI—The Majestic*
May 13—Pittsburgh, PA—Mr. Smalls Theatre*
May 15—New York, NY—Irving Plaza* (SOLD OUT)
May 16—Washington, D.C.—Lincoln Theatre* (LOW TICKETS)
May 17—Carrboro, NC—Cat’s Cradle* (LOW TICKETS)
May 19—Charlotte, NC—Neighborhood Theatre*
May 20—Richmond, VA—The National*
May 22—Philadelphia, PA—Union Transfer*
May 23—Woodstock, NY—Bearsville Theater* (SOLD OUT)
May 24—Boston, MA—Boston Calling
June 14—Croton-on-Hudson, NY—Hudson River Music Festival~
July 18—Trumansburg, NY—Finger Lakes GrassRoots Festival
July 19—Ottawa, ON—Ottawa Bluesfest
July 20—Guelph, ON—Hillside Festival
July 22—Deerfield, MA—Tree House Brewing Company+
July 23—Portland, ME—The State Theatre
July 24—Bar Harbor, ME—Criterion Theatre^
July 27—Newport, RI—Newport Folk Festival
August 8—Forest Hills, NY—Forest Hills Stadium#
August 9—Forest Hills, NY—Forest Hills Stadium#
September 26—Columbia, MD—All Things Go Music Festival
October 17—Indianapolis, IN—The Vogue
October 18—Chicago, IL—The Salt Shed
November 11—Phoenix, AZ—Crescent Ballroom
November 12—Santa Fe, NM—The Lensic
November 14—Denver, CO—Ogden Theatre
November 15—Salt Lake City, UT—The Depot
November 17—Seattle, WA—Showbox
November 18—Portland, OR—Wonder Ballroom (LOW TICKETS)
November 20—San Francisco, CA—The Warfield
November 21—Los Angeles, CA—The Wiltern

*with special guest Victoria Canal
+with special guest Neal Francis

#supporting Mumford & Sons

~special acoustic set feat. Jess Wolfe, Holly Laessig and Taylor + Griffin Goldsmith
^with special guests Spencer Albee and Zachary Bence