In the modern action movie canon, Gareth Evans’ “The Raid” and “The Raid 2” are seminal works. They helped put the Indonesian martial art of Pencak Silat on the world map, and established Evans as an endlessly inventive filmmaker both in terms of fight choreography and cinematography. After helming the 2018 folk horror film “Apostle” and co-creating the 2020 British crime series “Gangs of London,” his latest film, “Havoc,” pairs him with Tom Hardy (himself a Jiu-Jitsu student) for a crime thriller that draws as much from ‘70s American cinema as it does from Hong Kong’s stylized “heroic bloodshed” genre.
For “Havoc,” Evans spoke with Variety about his first theatrical return to action filmmaking in more than 10 years. In addition to detailing the themes and characterizations that provided connective tissue between his gritty storytelling and breathtaking, elaborate action, Evans reflected on the arc of his post-“Raid” career and offered his thoughts on the martial arts films and filmmakers who inspire him right now.
The action scenes in your films seem like they are as carefully plotted as the dialogue scenes. How much are they the priority for you when you start constructing the story that you want to tell?
Not at all — I never go into a project saying, “I want a fight scene in a nightclub.” It’s always about what’s the inciting incident for me. When I started writing “Havoc,” the first idea I had in my head was a cop arrives at a crime scene, there’s a pile of drugs on the table, there’s a dead body, there’s a triad boss, and then for some reason the cop is scooping some coke into a coffee cup. And then, I start playing detective mode going, “Okay, who’s the body? What’s the relationship to the drugs on the table? Who brought them there?” And I slowly build it out from there, from characters and plot and the themes, as opposed to being like, “We need an action scene here because it’s been a while.”
But when it comes to the design element of the big set pieces, it’s all scrutinized. Myself and Jude Poyer, the stunt coordinator, we’d get together, we discuss characters, who was involved, what’s their psychological state of mind, what’s their predilection to violence? All of these little questions help us build up a character profile, so we start to figure out their fight discipline and how they might respond in some circumstances. And then, it’s a case of, I wanted to use this weapon, or we would discuss the design of a set — with the nightclub, it’d be nice if it was two-tiered so we can start at the top and work our way down. But it builds organically. It develops the same way that I would develop a script.
Is Pencak Silat the foundation of all the fight choreography in your films?
When I left Indonesia and then started pursuing projects in the UK, whether that was “Apostle,” or “Gangs of London,” or now with “Havoc,” the Silat element got kind of pushed to one side. And especially for something like “Havoc” where we knew that we were going to have Tom Hardy coming on board for the film, I know he studies Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. But [his character] Walker doesn’t. So we stripped away martial arts from it, and then leaned more into gunplay, or him grabbing someone by the scruff of the neck and driving their head into something hard. That was more Walker’s speed. “Havoc” was very much me wanting to do something that felt, at times, like a ‘70s American crime film, but putting it within the framework of something that felt like a love letter to the Hong Kong “heroic bloodshed” genre of the ’80s and the ’90s.
The film has a real ‘80s John Woo feel — you could play this next to “The Killer” and they would fit together well. But this is also a movie about parents who are fighting to hold on to the children who are for one reason or another, estranged. How readily did that theme emerge.
It’s always important to have that one universal theme that feels relatable. We have these characters that are larger than life, but there’s got to be something emotionally that grounds all of that. And while I can’t relate to a mayoral candidate, a triad boss, or a corrupt cop, what I can relate to, as a parent to two children, is the anxiety I have raising them and hoping I’m preparing them for life. So it was an opportunity for me, through a very exaggerated means, to explore some of those anxieties throughout these characters. It was always important to have that spectacle, but also this undercurrent of something just bubbling underneath.
Why is the film set at Christmas? Does that have some meaning to you, or is it just an homage to Shane Black?
A little bit of all of the above. I’m a massive Shane Black fan, and I watched a lot of his films in preparation for writing this. But the idea of Christmas was important because it’s that time of the coming together of families, and we have three people who are as far apart from theirs as you could imagine. So it became an important piece of the puzzle.
How readily did Tom adapt to the choreography you designed?
It was great. Tom and I, our paths have almost crossed in the past on different projects, and we’ve been trying to work together on something. And so, when this opportunity presented itself, we grabbed it with both hands. When we came to shooting those action sequences, he came to this film really prepared, and he had been working out. When he turned up on the set, it was unreal — he was properly jacked.
But also, because of the fact that he’s worked in so many different action films in the past, and especially something like “Mad Max Fury Road,” with that process where we are shooting bite sized chunks of something as opposed to you’re going to do this whole flow in one, it meant that he already had a hell of a lot of experience. I never shoot coverage in an action sequence, it’s always those little jigsaw pieces, because I get so involved with the action design. For me, my eyes then are the lens of the camera, and I want the audience to understand the choreography, understand the geography of the scene, and to be able to follow the flow of the sequence.
As soon as I heard the first notes of Gesaffelstein’s “Opr” in the club fight, I immediately thought, ‘What a great song for a fight scene.’ How much listening do you do to find the right song? Not all filmmakers are that intuitive when it comes to music, especially for action sequences.
All the time. When I’m writing, I make a playlist of songs to listen to, and usually I do it for a sense of mood and emotion. When I was writing “Havoc,” I’d be listening to Sigur Rós if I wanted something that felt emotive, to get into that headspace. If I wanted something with high energy, like for the truck chase for instance, I was listening to M.I.A … It might’ve been “Born Free.” So I always listen to music, and whether I want to or not, images and visuals start appearing as I hear it. And if there’s a key change in the song, it’s like I know what the cut point is. So in the script, I mentioned “Pursuit” by Gesaffelstein as one of the key songs I wanted across that sequence. But I didn’t intend it to be four tracks in a row. However, every single one of those tracks just hit the right moments. I give credit to our music supervisors and music editors for finding the right moments and the right way to cut those tracks in. … “Hate or Glory,” when that one kicks in on the back of Luis Guzmán shooting his gun, it just does something in [my heart] every single time I hear it.
Since “The Raid” movies, how much have your subsequent projects allowed you to grow in your career in the ways that you hoped when you started directing? Is this the path that you had envisioned for yourself?
I’ve always felt a little bit of imposter syndrome within the industry. When I did “The Raid,” it was such a collective amount of circumstances that led me to be in Indonesia, that led me to meet [star Iko Uwais], that led me to make that film, that then ended up kickstarting my entire career. So the path that I’ve gone on with subsequent projects has been really fascinating … I’m only ever led by what feels, in my gut, is the right thing to do next. What’s been really helpful with “Gangs of London” and “Apostle” and also with “Havoc” has been working with lots of different performers with different skill levels and different disciplines, and learning how adapt to that. And also raising the shit out of my game as a director, because I have to go toe to toe with them, and to be able to match their energy.
It’s been a huge learning curve, and I like to keep my eyes open and my ears listening. But whether I go back and do another martial arts film at some point, that’s something I’m definitely keen to do. This one has been more gunplay and I’ve really enjoyed that, because obviously, I grew up watching John Woo and Sam Peckinpah, and I wear my influences on my sleeve in that regard. But yeah, I would love to do another martial arts one at some point down the line.
Your “DeathStroke” film, which was eventually canceled, was conceived during the era of a bygone DC regime. Does that larger canvas, or maybe a story that you didn’t develop yourself, still appeal to you?
I’m always open to whatever comes my way, even if it’s a developed script that’s a remake of something. If I feel I can bring something to it and the project appeals to me, then definitely. I’m reaching that point now. Since lockdown myself and Chris Webb — who’s actually part of the stunt team across “Havoc” but he’s a writer in his own right — started developing scripts together. So, I have a nice roster of things that could be next. I’d like to do something that feels a little bit smaller — a perfect-world scenario would be the Soderbergh method, something small and intimate and then something big and splashy, and find a way to express myself regardless.
How do you gauge action cinema now? Is great martial arts cinema being made now as much as it used to be?
It definitely still exists. When I was growing up, the only place to find great martial arts cinema was Hong Kong — and that’s it. And now you can get a great martial arts film coming from the US, from Europe, from the UK, from Thailand, from Southeast Asian countries, from Japan. I always felt like I got lucky because I was looking at what people did before me, like Sammo Hung and Jackie Chan, Panna Rittikrai in Thailand, and then taking those influences and bringing those into my work.
Now, I watch the Rurouni Kenshin films. I think Kenji Tanigaki [“Snake Eyes: G.I. Joe Origins”] is one of the best choreographers out there right now. I love watching everything that Chad Stahelski and David Leitch are doing. Larnell Stovall [“The Continental”] is a very dear friend of mine, and I can’t wait for his films to start getting made. He’s an incredible talent. And then, the “Baby Assassin” films from Japan are so wild and inventive and so much fun. So I love this genre, and I feel like it’s really healthy, and in good shape.
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